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Not much has changed in America’s narrative when it comes to survival and success. In

1775, Patrick Henry coined the phrase “give me liberty or give me death.” Fast forward to

2003, 50 Cent vowed to “Get Rich or Die Trying.” Now in 2015, the narrative is much more

bare bones, it’s simply about “Money and Violence.” Many reviews and critiques of “Money

and Violence” peg it as a story misguided ambition and American capitalism misconstrued.

They couldn’t be more off the mark with these ideologies. “Money and Violence” is a story of

survival embedded, with level of consciousness and strategy only people whom called an

urban jungle home could understand.

Conceptually, “Money and Violence” embodies philosophies that would be a product of a

brain trust consisting of Sun Tzu, Robert Green and Iceberg Slim. But in reality it’s from the

mind of Moise Vernau a.k.a Moe, a Brooklyn native, who is a self-taught filmmaker. I had the

opportunity to speak with Moe and found that he is much more than a filmmaker, he may be

one of our brightest young black minds.

A lot of people compare the Money and Violence to “The Wire.” In a previous interview

you said in “The Wire” the character’s quest seem to be more about power, where as in

Money and Violence it’s more about survival. Some people would argue that it takes a

certain level of power to survive and navigate your way through a street environment.

With that being said how do you draw the distinction between power & survival?

Where the distinction lies is, if you pay attention to the season one storyline and the entire

series itself and the characters within it, all of the characters that are involved in the streets

are miserable. The only guy that seems to have any joy on the show is the character Joe who

works 9 to 5, just got a promotion and he just bought a new car. Whereas with the wire it

was different, Avon Barksdale and Stringer Bell they were fine with what they were doing but

the characters on Money and violence are more conflicted. There was a conversation

between Rafe and Mitch one time where Rafe said to Mitch “you know you’re doing what

you’re good at but what you’re good at isn’t necessarily good for you.” On the wire they took

pride, like “yo I moved 20 kilos I moved 30 kilos” they took pride in it whereas in MAV it’s more

like I’m doing this because this is what I gotta do.

I think that’s something that’s important about the show as well because with a lot of

the hood shows and DVDs, you don’t see people in the grind working a job and still

having to do what they gotta do in the streets. I think that adds a whole other element

to the show. Why do you think no show prior to MVA has tapped into that?

I tell people that my advantage as a writer is that, people that have been in this life are not

creative enough to do a project like this, and most of the people that are creative enough

never lived this life. I think that is my advantage, I can stand on a corner with jeans Tims and

a t-shirt and kick it with my homies but I can also sit in a boardroom with a suit on and

communicate well enough to get through to these suits. I can sit through an interview and

explain myself intelligently, I think that’s what it is when it comes to the urban genre you have

people that are either on the left side of the fence or the right side of the fence but with this

project MVA straddles both sides of the fence. You have an urban genre about the things that

people do to eat live and breathe but on the other end of the fence there is great dialogue as

far as the storyline is concerned. I remember when we first began to shoot I remember some

of the characters would say “why do we have to speak so intelligently” and I used to tell them

we not all are ignorant and fucking dumb because we in the hood. We know how to adjust

ourselves. When we around our boys we may speak slang and this and that but when we get

to the workplace or we get around certain people we speak more intelligently. Aside from that

I told them that I want this to stretch beyond the hood. The truth is the people I’m trying to

reach out to are those who are apart of the younger generation who’s in the struggle. But I

also want the rest of the world to take a more intimate look at us and to get to know us a little

more and if the dialogue is something they can’t understand that can’t happen.

It sounds like what you’re describing a little bit is the prison of the mind so to speak.

Where people put themselves in this mental prison, that you can’t be more than what

you are or can’t present yourself as more than what you are. When I see you guys in

interviews you guys come off as very smart and articulate and you always say you’re

strategic in the things you do. With that do you believe that what you’re doing on the

business side has just as much impact as MVA itself?

Definitely and the reason I say that is because we have to set the example and people learn

by results. It’s one of two things you can’t just talk to people as far as what they should or

need to do you have to lead by example. People believe in results and a lot of times, if people

haven’t seen something occur right there in front of their face they don’t believe it’s accessible

or achievable. I believe any move I make will be worth it and we set a tone where people can

say OK, these guys made their own web series and with all the attention that they got this is

how far they made it. Very few people are independent thinkers enough to realize that where

we reached is not the end all be all and for this reason we need to make sure we get as far as

possible. We aim to be an example to people to let them know, what they are capable of and

what the possibilities are.

I’m sure when you have meetings with “the suits” and you walk into the boardroom,

they treat you certain way because of where you’re from. How do you break down that

barrier and let them know, I’m intelligent and I belong in this room with you?

The great thing is that I actually love it. The reason I love it is, I don’t know if you ever read

Sun Tzu’s “Art of War” but one of the great strategies is “let people think you’re weak when

you’re strong.” I did a four man panel discussion with “Lisa Evers Street Soldiers” on Hot 97

and on the panel there was a woman who was a doctor, one was a professor and all of these

people who came there to tell me I was glorifying violence with this project. The second I

opened my mouth they were basically thrown off and they didn’t know how to come at me

because I gave them nothing to attack me with. So I actually love so when I walk into these

conference rooms and open my mouth and totally throw them off their entire plan because

they realize, wow they not dealing with what they thought they were. On top of that,

understand I don’t go into these conference rooms looking for a deal because that’s not what

I’m looking for. I’m more than willing to do this on my own and I’m not afraid to, so when

people ask me what would be my perfect deal I say I don’t have one. I’m just here because

only a fool turns down a conversation and it doesn’t take anything away or cost me to hear a

man out. If the right deal comes along then great, if it doesn’t, I continue my planned course

of action because my plan was to take this for the long haul my way.

So you’re more interested in being the dictator of your own destiny than gaining

acceptance in Hollywood or television?

Yeah, I could care less about acceptance because my whole life I lived in a world where I was

cast as the bad guy or the outcast. I basically set the bad guy in the light where people could

understand him. I gave people a more intimate look at a person that under normal

circumstances they wouldn’t have gotten to know. Someone they may cross the street to

avoid and this show is out to show that characters as a human.

I was talking to a friend about the show and I drew a comparison of MAV to Iceberg

Slim’s book “Pimp.” Meaning that, the content is something that people that lived that

life can validate but at the same time people unfamiliar with the life can learn from it.

Was that one of the motivations behind MAV?

The whole purpose of the show is to show that, when you live that street life there is no joy.

You and your friends may go out one night and you may have moments that temporarily

distract you from your pain but you wake up the next morning you’re still in pain. I wanted to

give people a story of the struggle while pinpointing the pain. The news may show you the

what but it doesn’t tell you the why. They may show you that this guy robs a bodega but it

doesn’t show you this guy lives in an apartment with his wife and 2 kids and their 3 months

behind on the rent and are on the verge of being evicted. At the end of the day as a man, the

mental breakdown that you go through when faced with those situations knowing that you

must provide by any means necessary is tough. I’m not saying it’s always the case, or the

situation is always that dire. In the song “Changes” 2 Pac said, “I never did I crime that I

didn’t have to do” and for most people it’s true. No one finds joy in this, and that’s what I

wanted the world to understand. It’s not a justification and I’m not saying that its alright it’s just

me saying that we’re not animals. As a matter of fact, we go to the extremes that we do

because of the fact that we have families and people that we care for and we care for them so

much that we are willing to risk our lives to make sure that they are good.

A few years ago when Dave Chappelle was hot and on top of the world one of the

things that drove him to his breaking point is that with his show people got the joke but

they didn’t get the message with the joke. Do you have that fear with MAV?

There is never a time that you put a message out there and it is received 100% of the way

that it is intended. The messages and comments that I receive via social media, let me know

that there are people out there getting the messages. People have reached out to me and told

me that the series has changed their lives. That lets me know messages that we are putting

out there are penetrating some people. But I’m sure there are a percentage of viewers that the

messages may go over their head or they just gravitate towards the violence.

A major issue out there in the world is this police tension with the community definitely with the African-American community. With you guys literally in the streets making this series have you guys felt and tension from NYPD while filming due to the content of the show?

You know what’s crazy, we’ve actually have had so much cooperation from NYPD. A few days

ago I was walking down Flatbush Ave and a cop pulls up to me and says “can you come here

for a second.” I’m thinking its going to be some bullshit and he was like “yo, I just wanted to

shake your hand, I love the show all cops aren’t bad.” Even when we were shooting we shot

without permits or anything. We were shooting scenes with shoot-outs we would have prop

guns and the D’s were driving by and they drove by. I gave them my business card and I had

a camera around my neck and I just told them we were shooting a web series and they were

like cool. This is before MVA had any notoriety and they were like you guys do what you gotta

do we’ll put it out on the walkie-talkie that you guys are filming over here they haven’t

bothered us at all.

Did you expect the total opposite from NYPD because I wouldn’t think that at all?

I believe that you get further with respect than disrespect. We always shot in the same areas

so when we were shooting the first couple of weeks every time I saw a beat cop, I would walk

over to them and give them my business card and introduce myself. I would say “I just want

you guys to know we are shooting a web series out here this is our first season we are going

to be out here every week so I just wanted to give you guys a heads up.” It’s not something

that I had to do but I believe you show people respect they give you that respect back. I think

that is flaw in our people as I am concerned. I don’t think our approach should be anger and

I’m not for passive resistance, I believe that we should fight but at the same time people even

if they have authority over you they do not abuse those that they respect. We should work on

instead of being on the defensive give that respect first.

That goes back to what you said earlier about being able to communicate in the

conference room. Communication is a big key to that because a lot of dudes see police

and wild out on site expecting confrontation.

Yeah the automatic mentality is “I ain’t doing nothing what you bothering me for” just stop and

think how that sounds to NYPD. It doesn’t take anything from me as a man to respect or

acknowledge the rank of another man. At the end of the day before someone can identify you

as friend or foe, you have to identify yourself. If I don’t identify myself then I leave the door

open for me to be misconstrued as a foe more than a friend.

To create MVA you taught yourself the technical skill, like filming and editing. With that are you teaching younger people around you the same skills so they can live out their dreams as well?

We’ve been doing a lot of community outreach. We speak at a lot of group homes, we speak

at a lot of community centers and go into a lot of high schools. There is actually a school in

Bushwick that I visited 3 weeks ago, where they actually have a class on MAV. Where they

use the show as part of the curriculum to teach boys about manhood.

That’s dope.

It’s amazing, also something I’m proud of is the Tribeca Film Festival also recognized MAV.

They honored me by putting me on the NOW panel in this years festival, which is amazing

and I love it. That shows that they recognize this project as art. I remember when I first started

MAV I was talking to my boy and I told him I wanted this to be more than entertainment. It’s

an opportunity for us to help the world understand, why we live the way we live. With that

being understood, it feels amazing to me there is nothing more gratifying than making that

point to someone and having it understood.

Does it add any gratification that you are on a panel with other filmmakers with

“classical training” and have been to film school and you are self-taught but you’re

rubbing elbows with them as equals?

Yes and no, the only reason being is that MAV is something that I woke up one day and

decided to do. It’s not like as if I have been in tune with the film industry and I know who’s

who. It’s not like people I can run to in the industry or anything like that. I truly respect these

people and their accomplishments so being recognized by certain prestigious institutions and

sitting on a panel with these same people it’s definitely gratifying because it means I’m looked

at an equal.

One of the situations I wanted to ask you about from one of the episodes was a

conversation about friendship. Where you ask the question to another character, “what makes you and I friends?” That kinda took me back a little because in today’s world everyone has Facebook friends, Twitter and Instagram followers and so on. We have people essentially connected but not connected at the same time. So could you take me through your thought process in writing that?

I have this conversation with people all the time, we are surrounded by a bunch of people who

think they are friends because of the amount of time they’ve been in their lives. Overlooking

how loyal they are to them. There are people that will say this is my best friend but at the

same time, know that if they needed this person they couldn’t count on them. Time is not a

factor as far as friendship is concerned if you can’t count on someone if you can’t rely on them

how is that possibly your friend. That was my whole thought process behind that when I wrote

that conversation. We’re talking about (Grimey) Tye when he says, “you supposed to be my

man? you dudes kill me with that shit, what have I ever done to make you think that I’m your

man?” Just because a dude is around you doesn’t mean that you’re close.

Yeah, I actually paused the episode on that part because I really had to think about that

conversation. I remember someone telling me that when I was younger. Basically that,

you may have 20 friends around you now but by the time you turn 30 that 20 friends is

going to be like 2. It’s true so hearing that in the episode really took me back because

I’ve experienced that. Especially in the streets when it comes to is my family going to

eat or is your family going to eat “friendship” easily goes out the window.

Yeah now in 2015, it’s even more crucial because a lot of people out here are opportunist

very opportunistic and they have no shame. You can have someone you haven’t spoken to in

years but the minute you come up, this person want to be calling you everyday. Then when

you don’t reciprocate its like “yo you changed.” I’m like excuse me? It’s like no, you’re the one

that actually changed. A lot of successful people only have people around because they think

they can benefit off their success. Like Maya Angelou said “when someone shows you who

they are believe them.” One of man’s biggest weaknesses is love and because someone has

been in our lives for a huge part of our lives we make excuses for them when they aren’t even

trying to make excuses for themselves.

– Terrence Nelson. Follow him on Twitter @TM_Nelson

PHOTO CREDIT: SainCity Productions